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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Yesterday, I managed to glaze my Hawk Performance HPS brake pads on a very spirited mountain drive. They were smoking by the time I had finished my mountain drive.


I'm now interested in running a more aggressive brake pad that will take on the kinds of temperatures expected on a very spirited downhill mountain drive without excessive pad fade.

Two candidates I'm interested in are the following:

EBC Brakes
Yellow Stuff front
DP41884R
Yellow Stuff rear
DP41584R


Hawk Performance

HP Plus front
HB711N.661
HP Plus rear
HB557N.545



What I'm looking for, in descending order of importance (top is most important, bottom is least important). The top three are the biggest key points I'm considering.
* Made in the USA, UK, or Japan
* reasonably-safe cold bite characteristics for panic stop situations (able to stop shortly, quickly, and safely in the early morning mild cool temperatures of California)
* higher temperature resistance than stock brake pads and mild street brake pads such as Hawk Performance HPS, Stoptech Street Performance, etc.
* moderate to low noise, if possible
* DO NOT CARE ABOUT DUSTING




bottom line,
tl;dr

Does anyone have any experiences with Hawk Performance HP Plus brake pads and/or EBC Brakes Yellow Stuff brake pads, compared to the stock brake pads or mild street brake pads?

I'm curious just how much extra noise I should expect with a compound designed to take higher temperatures, in addition to the cold bite characteristics for reasonably-safe panic stops.
 

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I haven't used either of these on a vehicle, but EBC's brake pads for ATVs are junk. They lasted about a month on my ATV before I had metal on metal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Turkeytoe said:
I haven't used either of these on a vehicle, but EBC's brake pads for ATVs are junk. They lasted about a month on my ATV before I had metal on metal.
What compound were you running that wore out quickly? Red Stuff???
 

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It was the regular sintered metal pads, which are rated has "highest" lifetime.
 

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You might also look at Performance Friction brand pads. They are severe duty used by tow trucks, HD vehicles, etc. Not sure if they have the XV version out yet. Your local O'Reillys or AutoZone should be able to order them. They carry a lifetime guarantee through either retailer.

Just spoke to PFC Corporate, they are evaluating Impreza, XV, and WRX applications. So nothing yet, but since all Impreza-based vehicles (non brembo) use the same pad numbers odds may be in our favor.
 

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I've followed many cars going down hill with their rotors and brakes just a smoking. You could actually see the rotors glowing as they would make a curve. Not only the pads, but also all the rubber parts burning like cv boots, brake hose, caliper piston cover and seals ,and warp rotors! This is a good article to read about mountain driving. http://travel.thefuntimesguide.com/2005/07/downhilldriving.php
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Taste4it said:
You might also look at Performance Friction brand pads. They are severe duty used by tow trucks, HD vehicles, etc. Not sure if they have the XV version out yet. Your local O'Reillys or AutoZone should be able to order them. They carry a lifetime guarantee through either retailer.

Just spoke to PFC Corporate, they are evaluating Impreza, XV, and WRX applications. So nothing yet, but since all Impreza-based vehicles (non brembo) use the same pad numbers odds may be in our favor.
Hmmmm, please do post any updates, that would be a great option.


billybob said:
I've followed many cars going down hill with their rotors and brakes just a smoking. You could actually see the rotors glowing as they would make a curve. Not only the pads, but also all the rubber parts burning like cv boots, brake hose, caliper piston cover and seals ,and warp rotors! This is a good article to read about mountain driving. http://travel.thefuntimesguide.com/2005/07/downhilldriving.php
Although I appreciate you showing me that there are other ways to go downhill in a vehicle, I am well aware of the benefits of engine braking and use them on a regular basis. I do have the 5-speed manual, after all, and often utilize full engine braking on downhill grades.

However, the issue here isn't necessarily my driving style, because I was driving FAST, and I adore driving fast in the mountains. I'm not like those Prii drivers who ride their brakes downhill and never downshift.

I'm driving fast on a mountain road for fun, not to get from point A to point B like the way most people overheat their brakes.
 

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I'm not so sure that brake pads are going to help you. If you're using your Crosstrek like a WRX STI, you're probably going to need to invest in a full upgrade, with all the headaches, expenses and possibly void warranty that entails. For not much more money, you could probably pick up a first-gen Miata and have a grand ol' time.

I just borrow the wife's E92 330i sport when I want to Steve McQueen it in the hills.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ComradeKoala said:
I'm not so sure that brake pads are going to help you. If you're using your Crosstrek like a WRX STI, you're probably going to need to invest in a full upgrade, with all the headaches, expenses and possibly void warranty that entails. For not much more money, you could probably pick up a first-gen Miata and have a grand ol' time.

I just borrow the wife's E92 330i sport when I want to Steve McQueen it in the hills.
I'm already at 31000 miles. By the time I graduate from school (which is the main reason I got my XV), my extended warranty will be long gone.

As for a full brake upgrade, I already have stainless steel brake lines, high temperature brake fluid, but the mild street performance brake pads are the weakest link. No other issues other than the pads failing on my drive since my brake lines and fluid can take the abuse.


I usually use my 2000 Outback for my fun car, but it's currently not safe to use because of a missing battery tie down. So I went out to the moutains in the XV instead. However, I would like both my Subaru's to have great, upgraded brake systems (bare minimum, better pads and better fluid).
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
i had good success with EBC in my 04 WRX.

What size brake pads does the crosstrek use? same as Subaru XYZ? ......
The front brake pad shape on the XV are the same exact ones used on the GE/GH/GR/GV chassis WRX, 4-cylinder BM/BR chassis Legacy and Outback, and ZC chassis BRZ.
 

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I'm already at 31000 miles. By the time I graduate from school (which is the main reason I got my XV), my extended warranty will be long gone.

As for a full brake upgrade, I already have stainless steel brake lines, high temperature brake fluid, but the mild street performance brake pads are the weakest link. No other issues other than the pads failing on my drive since my brake lines and fluid can take the abuse.


I usually use my 2000 Outback for my fun car, but it's currently not safe to use because of a missing battery tie down. So I went out to the moutains in the XV instead. However, I would like both my Subaru's to have great, upgraded brake systems (bare minimum, better pads and better fluid).
Nice, so you're already doing much better than the stock setup. I had some fade when attacking Hwy 9 going to Santa Cruz a couple weekends back. My dad and I were having a boat-load of fun and since 9 was closed a few miles outside of SC, there was no traffic to speak of. Definitely felt some brake fade there, but did my best to keep my speed steady and the tires howling. I miss the great roads down there. 84, 35, 9, Mt Hamilton, Calaveras..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Nice, so you're already doing much better than the stock setup. I had some fade when attacking Hwy 9 going to Santa Cruz a couple weekends back. My dad and I were having a boat-load of fun and since 9 was closed a few miles outside of SC, there was no traffic to speak of. Definitely felt some brake fade there, but did my best to keep my speed steady and the tires howling. I miss the great roads down there. 84, 35, 9, Mt Hamilton, Calaveras..
Yup.

CA SR-9 is actually where I learned to drive :)

What kind of brake fade did you have? Brake pad fade (reduced response of braking system without regard to pedal travel), brake fluid fade (increased travel and increased "spongy" feeling brake pedal), or both?

Oh, and Calaveras Road is where I burned the poor Hawk Performance HPS brake pads :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Spongy and lots of travel but not much action. It went away after a little bit after I got past the low-speed hairpins.
Sounds more like fluid fade... Change out your brake fluid to some good DOT 4 as soon as practical. I experienced moderate to severe brake fluid fade in the XV with the street performance DOT 4 and it was NOT fun!

I would expect the fronts to wear sooner, but with four wheel discs wear is typically pretty even. Would the stability control and vehicle dynamics cause more wear?
I'm sure that the stability and traction control functions of VDC would add more wear since it does use the brakes, especially during spirited driving and/or off-road driving.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Well after some more research, I think I might have found two winners:

Endless NS97 brake pads
basic Endless brake pad part numbers

  • [Endless pad part numbers listed are applicable to all compounds]
  • (listed below, the pad part numbers are applicable to all fourth generation Imprezas, second generation Subaru XV based on fourth generation Impreza, and fourth generation non-turbo Foresters, pad shape is the same for front and rear)
front
EP386
rear
EP418

As listed below, the Endless NS97 compound is well above the limits of the Hawk Performance HPS compound that I have fried so many times already.

And then there's the EBC Brakes Yellowstuff. The EBC Brakes Yellowstuff temperature ratings seem bloated and massively better than the others, but perhaps it really is rated for that since it's one of the two in this list that are listed as "track worthy" brake compounds.

Called EBC Brakes USA Inc. and got the following temperature ratings for their Yellowstuff compound:
about -9 Celsius (15 Fahrenheit)
to about 982 Celsius (1800 Fahrenheit)

The Endless NS97 is rated for temperature limits between:
0 Celsius (about 32 Fahrenheit)
to 500 degrees (about 932 Fahrenheit)

The Hawk Performance HP+ is rated for temperature limts between:
about 37 Celsius (100 Fahrenheit)
to about 426 Celsius (800 Fahrenheit)

The Hawk Performance HPS compound that I overheated are rated at:
about 37 Celsius (100 Fahrenheit)
to about 371 Celsius (700 Fahrenheit)
 

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The front brake pads on the XV are the same exact ones used on the GE/GH/GR/GV chassis WRX, 4-cylinder BM/BR chassis Legacy and Outback, and ZC chassis BRZ.

But the rotor sizes aren't. IDK if it has been done yet, but taking the larger rotor from a Outback and using the Outback caliper brackets with the XVC calipers could result in much more braking surface, which will dissipate the heat better. This is a exact replica mod for the BG legacies.


OE big brake kit for cheap.

On the topic of pads, I have had good luck with Ferodo Racing pads. I used them in my Legacy GT for Mountain driving and auto-X.
 

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I also have the extreme performance pads and rotors from Rock Auto on my 2005 OBS and they seem to work pretty well. The rotors are slotted and cross drilled (not through the veins either) and the pads all came with new mounting tabs and shims.

My only complaint is that "cool" stopping isn't as grabby, but once heated up, they are pretty awesome.

Theyre pretty cheap too!
 
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